Talk:Craftaholics Anonymous/Guide/Advanced Crafting
Critical intelligence is always welcome, though snide derogatory attitudes aren't. Egomzez 21:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC) Directions While the entire concept of whether facing a direction matters or not, you misunderstand what it's derived from. It is not, as you believe, derived from the elemental strengths/weaknesses chart, but instead from the Constellation Chart. Each of the 8 primary compass directions is associated with a particular constellation of an avatar and has a corresponding star which glows in the color of that avatar's element. In order, they are: *NW: Fire (Ifrit) *W: Water (Leviathan) *SW: Lightning (Ramuh) *S: Earth (Titan) *SE: Wind (Garuda) *E: Ice (Shiva) *NE: Light (Alexander) *N: Dark (Odin) There, you have the 8 elements matched up with the 8 compass directions. 23:18, 13 May 2008 (UTC) :Wow - thanks for pointing this info out. Where do you find that these are connected with crafting? That is not the chart that comes up when you talk to the npcs that display the elemental dominance chart. I see your point and will be adjusting my guide as I learn, but do you have some source that says the Constellation Chart is related to crafting and not just skill chain and avatars? Egomzez 04:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC) ::I don't know how long you've been playing this game, but the constellation/directional crafting theory has been around for years now. Even if Purplenv wasn't the first person to put the theory forward, it was a major part of his/her theory on the means of increasing the number of skill-ups one could receive while crafting. That was posted in November of 2004 in Allakhazam's crafting forum. Purplenv deleted his theory and subsequent posts in rebellion against Allakhazam being bought by IGE, but here is the original link. Perhaps someone quoted the entire article and you can read it, even though the original was destroyed. I didn't feel like looking. Purplenv's guide and the directional theory were referenced by Lokyst in the web-based crafting timer he designed. 04:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC) :::I have read this post and understand what you point at. I have read many forums on the topic. I have even researched the charts and find both of them originated in the first release of the game. I appreciate that someone posted that theory on Allakhazam, but that doesn't make it absolute. Craft software can be made to support any theory, that isn't proof it is what the designers intended. I think the fact SE won't confirm the theory is reason enough to keep looking for something more reliable. I also think that the fact that many high level crafters don't believe says there could be other possibilities. The facing theory based on the constellation chart is a subjective perspective and I am not trying to say it is wrong; I am just saying I have my own subjective perspective and will explain why I believe it, in the guide I am making. You point to great links, thanks. Egomzez 05:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC) ::::The webpage for the crafting timer was referenced because that is how I found the link back to Purplenv's theory page and because it has the graphic showing the elements and directions. One of the biggest reasons high-level crafters don't believe in it is because directional crafting in any direction has been proven over and over to have absolutely no effect on HQ rates which is all they care about. Purplenv's guide, however, was made mostly for skilling up. ::::You are, of course, free to believe in and preach whatever ideas come to you. My goal was to inform you of a system that matches up the 8 cardinal directions with the elements that is actually drawn out for us in the game, rather than something arbitrarily contrived of which only two elements actually match up with cardinal compass points. If anything your ideas only lend credence to the idea that directional crafting is a complete myth, and that's coming from someone who believes in directional crafting, at least from a skill-up standpoint. 06:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC) :::::I think you bring up a great point I will add to the guide is that when it comes to facing: some debunk it for it HQ potential while others laude it for its skill up potential. That is useful information. Though the established faith in that map relating to crafting seems to not take into consideration that Vana'diel materials are not always true, some of what is printed in the game is from the voice of the characters, who SE has written to sometimes not understand their world. The fact the the assistant NPCs, aside from the astronomer himself, struggle with the Constellation Chart it is a subtle hint to me. The guy who made the map even says it does not represent the real sky. None of the assistants even identify themselves as crafters and as far I as understand avatars don't craft, nor do summoners. So, in the end you have a chart with the wrong directions on it with elements in differnt areas on it - how does this relate to crafting and what direction you should face - other then some one at some point said they believe it to be so? I really want to know! :::::I have read that specific guilds are related to certain avatars. The theory is then that one should be facing related to the direction of the guild's avatar for guild spells and not based on the crystals being used, but again, where is more information to this? Neither chart is specifically associated with crafting in game, however the "directional crafting" theory did arise from the constellation chart as it has very clear cardinal directions for each element. This is the first time I've ever heard of the elemental chart being used as directions, I've only ever considered that to be a guide for elemental strengths and weaknesses (which did lead to another popular crafting theory- that of which days to craft on). Personally I think it's all superstition, but since I'm superstitious I do it anyway "just in case" :) I hope this helps, somehow. --Toksyuryel 06:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC) I moved this talk to the page the facing information has been moved to. Techno your delivery of your point is unnessicarily jabbing, but you bring up your view, as it is, and that is worth keeping in the disscussion page. Egomzez 08:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC) ::I have personally tested directional effects on post-skillup cap, primarily high-quality rates vs success rates and their primary directions. The results are: compass is bupkis, in my opinion. The success direction had an identical HQ rate for the most part, and the HQ direction didn't have more breaks. However, I make it very clear in my article (Crafting Direction Tests) that the effects on skilling up cannot be determined from the initial tests. I intend to test this skill-up theory to the best of my ability soon. Feel free to add a link to my article, btw. I think full coverage of every view makes anything more credible. InfamousDS 08:02, July 8, 2011 (UTC) Lago-Charago's Stellar Map Just wanted to mention a little something about what Lago-Charago says about the North Star being above Sleipnir on the map but below it in the actual night sky - if I'm reading the map correctly, I believe he's not saying that the map doesn't represent the actual night sky, but clarifying how it does represent it. If I were to have the map in hand in Vana'diel, go out at night, face directly south, and then look straight up above me, the point in the sky I would see would be the point at the exact middle of the map. If I looked straight ahead of me (south) and a bit above the horizon, I would see the star Daemdalus. If I then tilted my head all the way back behind me, I'd be looking at the northern horizon, upside-down. From my upside-down point of view, the North Star would appear to be 'above' Sleipnir, just as it does on the map. However, most (sane) people wouldn't look at the northern horizon upside down - and those people would see the North Star as being below Sleipnir. So I believe Lago-Charago is trying to explain this, but maybe not in such a long-winded manner :) A shorter way to explain it would be that the outer circle of the map represents the horizon line, and the center point of the map represents the spot in the sky directly above one's head. I hope I've made sense here - keep up the good work on your guide! --Malfait 02:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :Interesting! Thanks for the encouragement. The way you describe it allows me to see why the map has east and west the way it does. Though, it hurts my brain. How the heck did you figure that out? You must be a map fan. ::I guess I kind of do have a thing for maps :P One of my ongoing goals in the game is to obtain maps for every possible area, haha :) Maps of the sky like this one still make me pause for a moment before I can orient myself to them - I have to imagine holding the map above my head instead of laying it out flat in front of me like a normal type of map. I'm glad my explanation made sense! I also love crafting, and I admire the players out there like you who have the patience and motivation to work out all the possible theories behind the crafting system (I don't have that sort of patience :P) - I would hate to see a well thought out theory about the mechanics of crafting turn out to be off-target because it was based off of game info that may be a bit unclear or misleading. And again, keep up the great work! :) ::--Malfait 05:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC) :::As you mention unclear and misleading game info - I wonder if you have any clue why this stellar map is connected to crafting. It drives me nutty that there is no obvious relation other then the avatar has an element and this map connects avatars to cardinal directions. It seems like a very oblique connection that some people would virtually kill you for not believing.